Vinnie vs. John

[MntnMan62]

SDK says that Vinnie doesn't play Be-bop. That is so not true. I would put the Chick Corea Live at the Blue Note in the be-bop category. I saw that band live at the NYC Blue Note and Vinnie swung his butt off. There were bits of Tony and Elvin in there at times. So, I just think that it is wrong to say he doesn't play be-bop. In fact I would say that his whole approach and style is very strongly based on jazz. I wouldn't doubt it if Vinnie spent many of his formative years studying the likes of Tony, Elvin, Jo Jones, Persip, etc. The only thing you can say is that he isn't heard playing be-bop all that often. But that doesn't mean he doesn't play it.

I won't even jump into the whole argument about who is better. That is such a meaningless proposition. They are both great, and they are both different. What more needs to be said?

[Steve Holmes]

This simple fact is Batman is only a man who happens to be a scientist, detective, and martial arts expert. The key here is that he has no superhuman powers.

So clearly, Spiderman can beat him up.
From the Marvel Universe website:
Spider-Man possesses superhuman strength, reflexes and equilibrium; the ability to cling to most surfaces; and a sixth sense that warns him of impending danger.

Batman is pretty tough but he is clearly outmanned here. The answer is clear:
Spiderman can beat up Batman. Spiderman has powers. Batman does not.

[cjbdrm]

Anyone wanting to knock JR needs to listen to "Back in the High Life" the SONG by Steve Winwood and "Split Decision" off the album Back in the High Life. I mean sit down and listen from beginning to end with no distractions and an open mind. JR's playing is very tasteful AND creative- not machine-like (though it's solid as a MF)...

This album is the one that got my attention and earned my respect for him. Make sure you don't skip the ending to "Back in the High Life".

Sure he's pompous and arrogant. But even with the attitude, there's a reason why the guy works so much.

Why choose? They're both great.

[Randy walker]

i don't hear any similarities in either JR or Ferrones playing other then they are great feel players.

[Tom Hipskind]

Originally posted by SDK:

Vinnie can't nail a click like J.R. According to producers that work with both, Vinnie has a more natural feeling groove. Meaning he plays around the click and sometimes consistantly ahead of it. This doesn't matter because the track still feels great. Vinnie's sound in the studio isn't that great and ussually gets manipulated in order to make it fit the track.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SDK, I don't know who you heard this from, but I've been in the studio with Vinnie, and I can tell you for a fact that he absolutely NAILS the click to the wall like I couldn't even fathom. On simple, groovin' stuff or super-complex, polymetric playing, it doesn't matter. He completely buries it. And all with that great feel, of course!

I agree that comparing these two is pretty ludicrous because they're both equally great for different reasons--apples and oranges, indeed! But to say Vinnie doesn't or perhaps can't (though I know that's NOT what you said, SDK!) play with the click with absolute accuracy is wrong. The guy's time is just uncanny.

-Tom

P.S. All due respect, of course!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 02, 2005 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Tom Hipskind ]</font>

[Randy walker]

Vinnie's time and groove has gotten better over the years, you can hear it if you liten to the cd Nightwalker from Gino Vannelli and then listen to say SheDaisy or Faith Hill, or compare the stuff he did on the Pages cd to the SheDaisy stuff, much more relaxed and not so ontop.

[Tom Hipskind]

Yeah Randy, and maybe the earlier stuff is more of what SDK was referring to. Without a doubt, he's had to tame down his "wildness" over the years! My experience with him was in '99 during the Kimotion "Tracking" sessions. Kimo and I were marvelling at the fact that we couldn't hear the click at all over a single backbeat. And I think Gregg Bissonette made a similar claim regarding their "Tune For Tony" experience in a recent MD.

-Tom

[shedder]

vinnie can nail all of jr's sessions. jr won't even get the call for most of vinnie's. can someone say ten summoner's tales? as far as groove, time, and taste are concerned, it just doesn't get better than that.

sdk, which vinnie are you referring to? vinny appice? gregg bissonette says vinnie can not only make the click disappear in the audio, you can't even see it on the screen! there are also countless stories of 1 take sessions. c'mon man, his sound needs to be manipulated in order to fit the track?? that's the most absurd thing i've read on here so far.